Sun Bingo Review: A Data-Led Look at Games, Bonuses and Payouts
Sun Bingo launched in 2006 as the bingo arm of the Sun newspaper, and two decades later it still runs on the same premise: bingo for people who read the paper, not for people who collect casino loyalty points. The site is operated by Jumpman Gaming under licence from the Gambling Commission, with the brand itself owned by News UK. That split matters more than most reviews admit.
This review works through the numbers rather than the marketing copy. We look at the welcome offer and its wagering terms, the room schedule, ticket prices, the 75-ball and 90-ball split, the slot catalogue from Pragmatic Play, NetEnt and Eyecon, deposit and withdrawal limits, and how the whole thing compares with Gala Bingo, Foxy Bingo and JackpotJoy. Every figure below is drawn from published terms or calculated from them, with the arithmetic shown.
One framing note before we start. Sun Bingo is not trying to be LeoVegas or Casumo. It is a bingo-first product with a casino attached, and judging it against a slots-led operator produces the wrong verdict. Judged against its actual peer group, the picture is more interesting, and in a few places, less flattering than the homepage suggests.
What Is Sun Bingo and Who Operates It?
Sun Bingo is a UK-facing bingo and casino site at sunbingo.co.uk, carrying the branding of The Sun newspaper. The domain has been live since 2006, which makes it one of the longer-running bingo brands in the British market, predating the smartphone era by a year. Ownership and operation are separate: News UK licenses the name, while Jumpman Gaming handles the platform, payments and regulatory compliance.
That structure is common in UK bingo. Foxy Bingo runs on a similar white-label arrangement, and so does much of the Jumpman estate. The practical consequence for a player is that customer support, withdrawal processing and bonus terms come from Jumpman, not from a newspaper office in London. If something goes wrong with a £50 withdrawal, the newspaper brand has no operational role in fixing it.
Licensing sits with the Gambling Commission under account number 39175, which covers Jumpman Gaming Limited. That places Sun Bingo inside the UK regulatory perimeter: UK Gambling Commission oversight, 18+ age verification, GamStop integration, and access to the ADR scheme run by IBAS. Players in Great Britain get the full domestic protection set. Players outside Great Britain should check their own local rules before registering, because the licence does not travel.
Is Sun Bingo Legit and Safe to Play On?
Yes, on the regulatory side. A live Gambling Commission licence means the operator submits to audits, must segregate player funds to a defined standard, and can be fined for advertising breaches. Jumpman Gaming has held its licence since 2014 and has been through the standard compliance reviews that come with it. That is a materially different position from an offshore site running on a Curacao licence with no UK recourse.
The honest caveat is that a licence guarantees process, not generosity. Regulated operators in the UK are subject to the same 2026 rules on bonus terms, stake limits on certain products, and affordability checks. Sun Bingo complies with those rules, which is why its welcome offer looks smaller than the headline figures you will see on offshore sites. That is a feature of the regulatory environment, not a flaw in the brand.
How Does Sun Bingo Make Money?
Three revenue lines. Bingo ticket sales take a rake from each room, typically between 10% and 30% of the prize pool depending on the room. Casino and slots play contributes house edge on games supplied by third parties. And the operator earns affiliate commission for players it refers onward to other Jumpman properties or partner sites.
The bingo rake is the number worth understanding. In a 90-ball room with a £10,000 prize pool funded by ticket sales, a 20% rake means players collectively staked £12,500 to win £10,000. Individual returns vary enormously depending on how many tickets you hold relative to the room, but the aggregate maths is fixed. No strategy changes it.
Sun Bingo Welcome Offer and Bonus Terms
The headline welcome package at Sun Bingo has shifted several times since 2006. In 2026 the standard structure is a first-deposit bingo bonus plus a bundle of free tickets for a specific room, with a smaller slots bonus alongside. The exact figures change with promotions, so treat any number you read as a snapshot rather than a permanent term.
What does not change is the wagering requirement attached to bingo bonuses. Sun Bingo applies a 4x play-through on bingo bonus funds, meaning a £10 bonus requires £40 in bingo ticket purchases before withdrawal. That is on the low end for the UK market. Gala Bingo and Mecca Bingo have historically sat at similar levels, while some casino-first brands apply 30x or 40x on slots bonuses.
The catch is the game weighting. Bingo contributes 100% toward the wagering requirement, slots contribute a lower percentage, and table games often contribute nothing. A player who takes a bingo bonus and then plays blackjack will find the bonus locked. The terms are not hidden, but they are buried in a page most people skim.
| Term | Sun Bingo (typical) | Gala Bingo | Foxy Bingo | JackpotJoy |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bingo bonus wagering | 4x | 4x | 4x | 4x |
| Slots bonus wagering | 20x–40x | 20x–30x | 20x–40x | 30x |
| Bingo contribution | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
| Slots contribution | 10%–20% | 10%–20% | 10% | 15% |
| Bonus expiry | 7–30 days | 7–30 days | 7 days | 30 days |
| Max bonus conversion | Capped | Capped | Capped | Capped |
What Are the Key Wagering Requirements?
Four terms decide whether a bonus is worth taking. The play-through multiplier, the contribution weighting by game type, the expiry window, and the maximum conversion cap. Sun Bingo's bingo side is competitive at 4x. Its slots side is standard at 20x to 40x depending on the promotion. Expiry is the term most players miss, and it is the one that costs them.
Worked example. A player deposits £10, receives a £10 bingo bonus at 4x, and plays in a 90-ball room with £0.10 tickets. Reaching £40 in ticket purchases takes 400 tickets. Spread across a week at 60 tickets a day, that is roughly seven days of play. If the bonus expires in seven days, the margin for a missed evening is zero. Read the expiry before you deposit, not after.
Are There Free Bingo Rooms at Sun Bingo?
Yes, and they are the most useful part of the product for a new player. Sun Bingo runs free rooms with small prize pools, usually £5 to £50 per game, funded by the operator as a retention tool. Access typically requires a deposit or a recent play history. The prizes are modest, but the rooms let you learn the interface at zero cost.
The free rooms also serve a data purpose. Operators use them to identify which players convert to paid play and which drift away. From the player's side, the calculation is simple: free tickets cost nothing, the prize pool is real, and the only commitment is the deposit threshold for entry. Treat it as a trial rather than a strategy.
Sun Bingo Games, Rooms and Software
Sun Bingo runs 75-ball and 90-ball bingo, plus a smaller selection of 80-ball and themed rooms. The 90-ball format dominates UK bingo and is the default. Room schedules run from early morning through to late night, with peak activity between 19:00 and 22:00 when prize pools are largest. Off-peak rooms have smaller pools and fewer players, which changes the maths considerably.
The bingo engine is proprietary to the Jumpman platform, which means the rooms look and behave similarly across the group's brands. Slots come from third-party suppliers: Pragmatic Play, NetEnt, Eyecon, Microgaming and Blueprint Gaming are all present. Evolution supplies live dealer tables. That supplier list is the same one you will find at Ladbrokes Casino, William Hill Casino and Betfred Casino, so there is no exclusive content advantage here.
Where Sun Bingo differentiates is the room theming. Rooms carry Sun newspaper branding, celebrity-linked promotions, and seasonal prize events. Whether that matters depends on how much you value the wrapper. Mechanically, a 90-ball room at Sun Bingo behaves like a 90-ball room at Gala Bingo or Betfair Casino's bingo product.
| Format | Balls | Typical ticket price | Typical room size | Peak hours |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 90-ball | 90 | £0.01–£1.00 | 50–400 players | 19:00–22:00 |
| 75-ball | 75 | £0.05–£0.50 | 30–200 players | 20:00–23:00 |
| 80-ball | 80 | £0.10–£0.50 | 20–100 players | Evening |
| Free rooms | 90 | £0.00 | 100–500 players | Variable |
| Slots | n/a | £0.10–£5.00/spin | n/a | 24/7 |
Which Game Providers Supply Sun Bingo?
The bingo rooms run on Jumpman's in-house engine. The slots library draws on Pragmatic Play, NetEnt, Microgaming, Eyecon, Blueprint Gaming, Red Tiger and Big Time Gaming. Live casino tables come from Evolution. That covers the major UK-facing suppliers, though it excludes some specialists such as Hacksaw Gaming, whose output appears more often at casino-first brands.
For a bingo player, the supplier list matters less than the room schedule. For someone who splits time between bingo and slots, it matters more. Pragmatic Play's bingo product is not used here, so the room mechanics are Jumpman's own. That is neither better nor worse than the alternative, but it does mean the experience is not identical to Pragmatic-powered rooms elsewhere.
How Do Sun Bingo Rooms Compare on Prize Pools?
Prize pools scale with ticket sales. A 90-ball room with 200 players holding an average of six tickets at £0.10 each generates £120 in stakes. Apply a 20% rake and the pool is £96, split across the standard 90-ball prize structure. Bigger rooms mean bigger pools but lower individual win probability, because more tickets are in play.
This is the core tension in bingo and it is worth stating plainly. Buying more tickets raises your chance of winning, but it does not change the rake. A player holding 10% of the tickets in a room has a 10% expected share of the pool, regardless of how large that pool is. Room selection matters more than ticket volume for value, though not for variance.
Banking, Withdrawals and Mobile Experience
Sun Bingo accepts the standard UK payment set: Visa, Mastercard, PayPal, Apple Pay, Google Pay, and Pay by Bank. The minimum deposit is £10. The minimum withdrawal is also £10, with a maximum that varies by method. Debit card withdrawals typically clear within one to three working days. E-wallet withdrawals are faster, often within 24 hours, though the operator's own processing window adds a buffer.
Withdrawal limits are the term that catches people out. Sun Bingo applies a maximum withdrawal per transaction and a monthly cap on some account types. The UK Gambling Commission's 2026 rules also mean larger withdrawals can trigger source-of-funds checks. If you are withdrawing £2,000, expect to be asked for documentation. That is a regulatory requirement, not an accusation.
Mobile is where the bulk of play now happens. Sun Bingo runs a browser-based product rather than a standalone app, which means no App Store download and no storage footprint. The trade-off is that push notifications are limited and the experience depends on your browser. For bingo, which is a low-interaction format, that trade-off is acceptable.
How Long Do Sun Bingo Withdrawals Take?
E-wallets such as PayPal typically complete within 24 hours of the operator's processing window. Debit cards take one to three working days. Bank transfers can take up to five. The variable is not the payment rail but the operator's internal review, which can add 24 to 72 hours for first withdrawals or accounts flagged for verification.
Practical advice: complete verification before your first withdrawal, not after. Upload ID and proof of address at registration. Players who do this withdraw faster than those who wait for the request to trigger a manual review. It is the single most useful thing you can do to avoid a frustrating first cash-out.
Is There a Sun Bingo Mobile App?
No dedicated app. Sun Bingo runs as a mobile-optimised browser site, which works on iOS and Android without installation. The absence of an app is a deliberate choice by Jumpman, shared across its brand portfolio, and it avoids the 30% commission Apple and Google apply to in-app purchases.
Functionally, the browser version handles bingo well. Room entry, ticket purchase and chat all work on a phone screen. Slots are less comfortable on a small display, particularly Megaways titles from Big Time Gaming, which pack a lot of information into the reels. If slots are your main interest, a tablet or desktop gives a better experience.
Sun Bingo vs Other UK Bingo and Casino Brands
The UK bingo market is crowded. Gala Bingo, Foxy Bingo, JackpotJoy, Mecca Bingo, Heart Bingo, Rainbow Riches Casino, Double Bubble Bingo, MrQ, Lottoland Casino, Slingo Casino and Tombola all compete for the same players. Most run on the same handful of platforms, offer similar bonuses, and differentiate mainly on branding and room theming.
Where Sun Bingo sits in that group is mid-table on most metrics. It is not the cheapest on rake, not the largest on prize pools, and not the most generous on bonuses. It is competitive on wagering terms and strong on brand recognition. For a player who already reads The Sun, the familiarity is a real draw. For everyone else, the comparison is closer to a coin toss.
The brands worth naming as direct alternatives are Gala Bingo for room variety, Foxy Bingo for a similar white-label model with a different skin, and JackpotJoy for a larger slots library. Casino-first operators such as Bet365 Casino, William Hill Casino, Sky Vegas Casino and 888 Casino offer bingo as a side product rather than a core one, and their bonus structures reflect that.
How Does Sun Bingo Compare With Gala Bingo?
Gala Bingo runs on its own platform, has a larger room schedule, and typically offers a broader prize pool range. Its welcome terms are similar, with bingo wagering at 4x. The difference is scale: Gala's rooms are busier, which means larger pools but more competition per ticket. Sun Bingo's quieter rooms suit players who prefer smaller fields.
On slots, Gala has the wider catalogue, drawing on Pragmatic Play, NetEnt and Microgaming alongside its own content. Sun Bingo's library is solid but narrower. If bingo is 80% of your play, the two are close. If slots are the main event, Gala edges ahead on variety, though not by a wide margin.
Is Sun Bingo Better Than Foxy Bingo?
Both run on Jumpman infrastructure, so the mechanics are near-identical. Foxy Bingo has a longer standalone brand history and a slightly different room mix. Sun Bingo leans harder on newspaper tie-ins and celebrity promotions. Bonus terms are comparable, with both applying 4x on bingo and 20x to 40x on slots.
The tiebreaker is room traffic. Foxy's rooms have historically drawn more players during off-peak hours, which means better prize pools at times when Sun Bingo's rooms are quiet. If you play during the day rather than the evening, Foxy is the marginally better pick. If you play in the evening peak, the gap closes.
How Does Sun Bingo Stack Up Against JackpotJoy?
JackpotJoy is slots-led with bingo attached, the inverse of Sun Bingo. Its slots catalogue is larger and its jackpot games, including the networked Jackpotjoy Jackpots, offer prize pools that bingo rooms cannot match. Bingo wagering sits at 4x, matching Sun Bingo, but the slots bonus terms are typically stricter at 30x.
For a pure bingo player, Sun Bingo is the more focused product. For someone who wants bingo as an occasional break from slots, JackpotJoy offers more to do between games. The choice comes down to which format you would keep if you could only keep one.
What About Casino-First Brands Like Bet365 and William Hill?
Bet365 Casino, William Hill Casino, Sky Bet Casino, Ladbrokes Casino, Paddy Power Casino, Coral Casino, Betfred Casino, Betfair Casino, BoyleSports Casino, Virgin Games Casino, Betway Casino, Admiral Casino, 32Red Casino, 888 Casino, PartyCasino, Grosvenor Casinos, Unibet Casino, Mr Vegas Casino, Casumo Casino, LeoVegas Casino, NetBet Casino, Genting Casino, bwin Casino and BetMGM Casino all offer bingo or bingo-adjacent products alongside their main casino libraries.
None of them treat bingo as a core product. The rooms are smaller, the schedules thinner, and the promotions less frequent. What they offer instead is a much larger slots and live casino selection, often with better game variety than a bingo-first site can justify. If you want one account for everything, a casino-first brand is more practical. If bingo is the point, a bingo-first brand is the better fit.
Responsible Gambling at Sun Bingo
Sun Bingo operates under a UK Gambling Commission licence, which means a defined set of player-protection tools is mandatory, not optional. The legal minimum age to open an account and play is 18. Age verification happens at registration and again before any withdrawal, and accounts that fail verification are suspended rather than closed silently.
The national helpline for gambling harm in Great Britain is the National Gambling Helpline on 0808 8020 133, available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, run by GamCare. GamCare also provides live chat and face-to-face counselling. Calls are free from UK landlines and mobiles. The service is independent of any operator and does not report back to Sun Bingo.
Self-exclusion is handled through GamStop, the national online self-exclusion scheme. Registering with GamStop blocks access to every UK-licensed gambling site, including Sun Bingo, for a minimum of six months. The block is enforced at the platform level, so it cannot be reversed early by contacting customer support. Sun Bingo also offers its own internal deposit limits, session timers, time-out periods from 24 hours to six weeks, and a permanent account closure option.
What Tools Does Sun Bingo Offer for Safer Play?
Deposit limits can be set daily, weekly or monthly, and reductions take effect immediately while increases require a 24-hour cooling-off period. Session reminders can be set at intervals from 15 minutes upward. Reality checks display time and net spend. Time-outs range from 24 hours to six weeks, during which marketing communications stop.
These tools are standard across UK-licensed operators and are not unique to Sun Bingo. What matters is whether they work. GamStop registration is the strongest single measure because it is enforced across the whole licensed market, not just one brand. Deposit limits are useful but can be raised after a cooling-off period, which limits their effectiveness for anyone in genuine difficulty.
What Happens If You Self-Exclude From Sun Bingo?
You have two routes. GamStop covers every UK-licensed operator for a minimum of six months. Sun Bingo's internal self-exclusion covers only its own platform but can be set for shorter or longer periods. The internal option is useful for a break from one brand. GamStop is the correct choice if the problem is gambling generally.
Either way, the account is blocked, marketing stops, and any bonus funds are typically forfeited. Withdrawing an existing balance is still possible, and operators are required to return funds owed. Registering with GamStop does not affect your credit file and is not reported to any third party outside the scheme.
One practical note. Self-exclusion is not a test of willpower, and treating it as one defeats the purpose. If you are considering it, the useful question is not whether you can moderate, but whether the effort of moderating is worth the return. For most people who ask the question, the answer is no, and that is a reasonable conclusion to reach.
Where Can You Get Help With Gambling Harm?
The National Gambling Helpline is 0808 8020 133, open 24/7 and free to call. GamCare runs the service and offers online chat and counselling. Gamblers Anonymous runs local meetings across the UK. For financial advice connected to gambling debt, StepChange and National Debtline both offer free, non-judgemental support. None of these services are affiliated with any operator.
Sun Bingo's own responsible gambling page links to GamCare and GamStop, as required under licence conditions. That is the minimum standard, not a mark of distinction. Every UK-licensed operator does the same. The value is in the tools themselves, not in the fact that a link exists.
Practical Verdict: Who Should Use Sun Bingo?
A player who reads The Sun, plays 90-ball bingo two or three evenings a week, and wants a £10 deposit to go a reasonable distance will find Sun Bingo serviceable. The 4x bingo wagering is fair, the room schedule covers the day, and the brand is familiar. Nothing about the product is broken, and the regulatory position is clean.
A player who wants the largest prize pools, the widest slots library, or the most aggressive bonus offers will find better options. Gala Bingo and JackpotJoy beat it on scale, and casino-first brands such as Bet365 Casino and William Hill Casino beat it on game variety. Sun Bingo's edge is focus and familiarity, and that edge only matters if you value either.
The honest summary is that Sun Bingo is a competent mid-market bingo product with a strong brand and unremarkable terms. It does nothing badly and nothing exceptionally. For a player who already likes the brand, that is enough. For a player shopping purely on numbers, the comparison table above tells the story, and the story is close to a draw with three or four rivals.
Is Sun Bingo Worth It in 2026?
Yes, if bingo is your main format and you value the newspaper tie-in. The 4x bingo wagering is competitive, the free rooms are a genuine low-cost entry point, and the Gambling Commission licence provides real recourse. No, if you want the best slots catalogue or the biggest prize pools, because other brands do those things better.
The 2026 regulatory environment has compressed the differences between UK-licensed operators. Bonus sizes are smaller than they were in 2019, affordability checks are more common, and stake limits apply to some products. Sun Bingo has adapted to that environment without standing out in it. That is a neutral finding, not a criticism.
What Is the Single Best Reason to Choose Sun Bingo?
The free bingo rooms. They cost nothing beyond the deposit threshold, they run regularly, and they let a new player learn the platform without risking money. Most UK bingo brands offer something similar, but Sun Bingo's free rooms are consistently populated, which makes them more useful than an empty room with a theoretical prize pool.
Second-best reason: the 4x bingo wagering. On a £10 bonus, that is £40 in ticket purchases, achievable in a week of normal play. Compare that with a 30x slots bonus at a casino-first brand, where a £10 bonus requires £300 in spins. The bingo side of Sun Bingo is materially more forgiving than the casino side, and that is worth knowing before you deposit.
What Should You Check Before Depositing?
Three things. The expiry window on the current welcome bonus, because it determines whether the wagering is realistically achievable. The maximum conversion cap, because it limits how much of a bonus win you can actually withdraw. And the withdrawal method fees, because some payment rails charge for cash-outs while others do not.
All three are on the terms page, and all three are routinely skipped. Reading them takes five minutes. Not reading them is how players end up with a locked bonus and a support ticket. The information is there; the only variable is whether you look at it before or after the deposit clears.
Does Sun Bingo Have a VIP or Loyalty Scheme?
Yes, though it is invitation-based rather than publicly tiered. Regular players receive targeted offers, free tickets and occasional cashback. There is no published points system equivalent to the tiered programmes at Grosvenor Casinos or Genting Casino. The upside is that offers are personalised. The downside is that the criteria are opaque.
For most players, the loyalty scheme is not a reason to choose Sun Bingo. The value it delivers is modest compared with the difference in rake and prize pools between rooms. If loyalty rewards are a priority, a casino-first brand with a published tier structure will deliver more predictable value over a 12-month period.
How Does Sun Bingo Handle Customer Support?
Support runs through live chat and email, with live chat available during extended hours and email responses typically within 24 hours. Phone support is not offered. That is standard for Jumpman-operated brands and matches the setup at most mid-market UK bingo sites. Response quality varies by query type, with payment issues handled faster than bonus disputes.
The practical tip is to use live chat for anything time-sensitive and email for anything that needs a paper trail. Bonus disputes benefit from a written record, because the terms page is the arbiter and a chat transcript is easier to reference than a phone call you cannot replay. Keep screenshots of promotional terms at the time you claim them.
Frequently Asked Questions About Sun Bingo
These are the questions that come up most often, answered directly. Each answer reflects the terms as they stand in 2026 and the regulatory framework that applies to UK-licensed operators. Where a figure varies by promotion, the answer notes that rather than quoting a number that may have changed by the time you read it.
Is Sun Bingo Licensed in the UK?
Yes. Sun Bingo is operated by Jumpman Gaming Limited under a Gambling Commission licence, account number 39175. That means UK Gambling Commission oversight, 18+ verification, GamStop integration, and access to the IBAS alternative dispute resolution scheme. Players in Great Britain get the full domestic protection set that a UK licence provides.
What Is the Minimum Deposit at Sun Bingo?
The minimum deposit is £10, and the minimum withdrawal is also £10. Debit card withdrawals typically take one to three working days, while e-wallets such as PayPal often complete within 24 hours of the operator's processing window. First withdrawals can take longer if account verification has not been completed in advance.
Does Sun Bingo Have a Mobile App?
No. Sun Bingo runs as a mobile-optimised browser site rather than a downloadable app, which is a deliberate choice across the Jumpman brand portfolio. It works on iOS and Android without installation, avoids app store commission, and handles bingo well. Slots are more comfortable on a larger screen.
What Wagering Requirement Applies to Sun Bingo Bonuses?
Bingo bonuses carry a 4x play-through requirement, so a £10 bonus needs £40 in bingo ticket purchases before withdrawal. Slots bonuses are stricter, typically 20x to 40x. Bingo contributes 100% toward wagering, slots contribute 10% to 20%, and most table games contribute nothing.
Can You Play Sun Bingo for Free?
Yes, through the free bingo rooms. These run regularly with prize pools typically between £5 and £50 per game, funded by the operator as a retention tool. Entry usually requires a deposit or recent play history. The prizes are modest but the rooms cost nothing beyond that threshold, making them a low-risk way to learn the platform.
What Games Are Available at Sun Bingo?
90-ball and 75-ball bingo are the core formats, with 80-ball and themed rooms alongside. Slots come from Pragmatic Play, NetEnt, Microgaming, Eyecon, Blueprint Gaming, Red Tiger and Big Time Gaming. Live dealer tables are supplied by Evolution. The bingo engine itself is proprietary to the Jumpman platform.
Is Sun Bingo Better Than Gala Bingo?
It depends on what you value. Gala Bingo has a larger room schedule, wider slots catalogue and typically bigger prize pools. Sun Bingo has quieter rooms, competitive 4x bingo wagering and strong brand recognition. For evening peak play, the two are close. For off-peak play, Gala's busier rooms generally offer better value.
How Do You Self-Exclude From Sun Bingo?
Two routes. GamStop covers every UK-licensed operator for a minimum of six months and cannot be reversed early. Sun Bingo's internal self-exclusion covers only its own platform and can be set for shorter periods. For a break from one brand, use the internal option. For a break from gambling generally, GamStop is the correct choice.
Sun Bingo is a mid-market UK bingo product with a clean licence, competitive bingo wagering at 4x, a familiar brand, and no single metric on which it leads the market. For players who value the newspaper tie-in and play 90-ball regularly, it does the job without drama. For anyone shopping purely on prize pools, slots variety or bonus generosity, the comparison tables above point elsewhere, and that is the honest conclusion after working through the numbers.